I love politics because it always seems to provide you with new experiences. Today, unfortunately, is a “new experience” I could have gone without having ever experienced. No, honestly, I lost four hours of my life to something I’m not exactly sure how to describe to you.

The bottom line is it will come off looking a bit embarrassing for the Republican party, and judging by reports from across the state, the Clay County Republican caucus was reproduced in some form or another in multiple locations. From what little I have read in some places it was worse. The worst case was probably in St. Charles in which a caucus had to be shut down by police and two Ron Paul supporters were arrested.

And there folks is your problem!

What Mark Levin affectionately terms Ronulans, or Ron Paul supporters. (Sorry, I’m not going to explain the Star Trek reference, just know, it’s appropriate.)

Now, I would like to make a disclaimer here: I don’t want to overgeneralize because I do have some friends that are Ron Paul supporters, and I do respect them. (Know that it is not that many.) I also respect many of the positions that Mr. Paul holds, and I have financially supported his PAC and his campaign in the past. My reasoning for doing so is I do think Mr. Paul’s voice belongs in the Republican party and should be heard. My major qualms with him surround his foreign policy. He’s just wrong, so wrong I can’t support him for the nomination of the Republican party.

The thing about today is there is a wrong way and a right way to participate. Mr. Paul’s supporters put on a clinic today in the wrong way.

First, they tried to nominate a candidate to run the caucus. When the first vote failed they cried establishment takeover (or something to that effect). So, there was another vote. The irony was the recount actually showed less votes in their favor.

The next big fit they threw took place when the delegate slates were proposed. There were two slates for the sixth district: a unity slate proposed by a member of Common Sense for Common People from Kearney and the Ron Paul slate. The sixth district unity slate won. Next, there were two fifth district unity slates proposed, one by Central Committee member Tom Salisbury and the other a Ron Paul slate. Chaos erupted again and people began exiting the caucus in large quantities. The Paul supporters demanded a new quorum count. Sadly, a little over 100 people left.  The Ron Paul slate was defeated in both the fifth and sixth congressional districts.

Now, don’t get me wrong, I actually think there is a significant point of contention with respect to the unity slate (in reality though I have a point of  contention with the whole process). One of the continual things the Paul supporters screamed were that we didn’t know who the unity slate would vote for. It’s a fair point, and I have a major problem with not being able to cast a vote for the candidate that I think is best to be the nominee. But when you get right down to it, as of right now I think there is no best candidate, but I certainly believe that Ron Paul is not the guy, so in a very convoluted way my voice was sort-of heard.

Anyway, back to our feature presentation. It seemed at this point that the craziness might subside. It was time to amend the Republican party platform. Not to be let down, the Ronulans provided us with more yelling and fireworks when they proposed to dump the entire platform and give us a new one. Oh, but did we get to read the new platform? Nah…. That’s not important. I was amazed at the two-faced nature of what the Paul supporters were proposing here. Some of these people probably screamed loudly at some point in the last couple years about how their representatives should be required to read any legislation passed. But, hey, in this situation, just take our word for it, we’ll give you the Cliff Notes version in a fiery speech. Ummm….thanks, but no thanks.

In fairness, I have to be  a little critical of Clay County Republican party chair Ben Wierzbicki. For the most part, he did a good job in dealing with people that were effectively behaving like overgrown teenagers, wait, that’s too much credit, overgrown five-year-old children. Mr. Wierzbicki should have realized early on that the majority of people in attendance would have stood up to the Paul supporters and that he had the votes to keep them under control. Early on he threatened to have people removed if they would not stop creating a disturbance. As the meeting progressed the Ronulans yelled, booed, called point of order (so many times I think I am going to have nightmares), and sacrificed lambs (oh, wait, that didn’t happen, but it seemed like we could have gotten there). By allowing these individuals to continue to be present and ignoring their persistent calls to be recognized through Robert’s Rules of Order he made the situation a little more chaotic than it needed to be. He should have either accepted their point of order and listened to whatever they had to say. At some point it all would have worked itself out. I really don’t envy what Mr. Wierzbicki had to go through today.

The reality is this must be fixed by our legislators before the next Presidential election. Caucuses are absurd and have no place in our modern political landscape. There is more to the story of why we had a caucus then I am discussing on this post. Let’s just say this mess could have been averted.

For your viewing pleasure, here is a video from today. Sorry if the video appears sideways, it is corrected on the YouTube page.

  1. ilovemymac says:

    ROn Pauls foreign policy is right with the Constitution. And before GW BUSH came to power it was our foreign policy. Did reagan win over the soviets by bombing them? NO he did it with talks. Ron Paul is the only foreign policy i will take. I am so tired of endless wars that cost us money and are needless. Did we need to be in Iraq all these years? no. We should have gone in got bin laden and left. There is no need to keep troops all over the world. Dont you realize how much of a boost our economy would have if they all came home bought houses and rented houses here and bought food, clothing and cars? They would be spending that paycheck weekly here in the US not in some foreign country.

    And because of this one view you cant support Ron Paul but you can support who?
    There is no one else who can fix the issues of our society but Ron Paul. The other 3 all want more of the same we are seeing in Obama. They all want big govt. Sure they talk big cuts but as we have been shown when you break them down it really ends up costing more then they save.

  2. Jason Stucky says:

    I truly with people would research things before just going crazy about foreign policy. I was concerned about that at one point.
    Its amazing how many Americans tune out the budget and our gross overspending. People are more worried about the threat of terrorism and the threat of Iran or if we should provide funding to Israel.
    But the amount of debt this country has accumulated at 16 Trillion and rising is our greatest threat. infact this is the SINGLE most important issue of the next 5 years because our deficit and our spending are fast approaching a point of no return. Our money is on the verge of being worthless. Think about that for a minute!

    WE as Americans have got to wake up and quit listening to what the media tells you to vote for and silly campaign rhetoric.

  3. Adam Cross says:

    One correction, Andrew. The new party platform was presented as a summary because the gentleman who submitted it was told he would only have two minutes, which is not nearly enough time to read an entirely new platform. He probably should have contested that and insisted on more time, but I think he knew it wasn’t going to win anyway so might as well summarize and at least get a chance to maybe reach some people.

    The caucus was a train wreck. I don’t see any point in even having it. Clay County ended up electing a bunch of delegates without knowing their names or having any understanding of what candidates they will support. All we know is that they were hand-picked by party insiders, and that’s supposed to be good enough. People actually stood up and voted in favor of that.

    So the primary doesn’t matter at all, and now we know the caucus doesn’t either. We don’t have any general democratic agreement on who Missouri delegates will support for president. Nobody can tell us which candidate “won” Missouri. We’ll find out who Missouri supports at the convention when a bunch of anonymous people pick whomever they feel like. On second thought, we probably still won’t know.

  4. Thanks for posting this – it demonstrates how repressive the Establishment Republicans were. I say “Establishment Republicans”, because real Republicans would have allowed an opportunity for everyone to be fairly heard. I was there. I know what happened. The author (and several of these posters) claim to not understand why we have a caucus. It’s because everyone deserves to have a say in who represents them. By serving up two candidates “picked” by two monolithic political parties with big business interests lining their pocket books – is this what our Constitutional Republic has become? As for those who it’s claimed as behaving like five-year olds….I’m sure this is the kind of Propaganda that various tyrannical regimes have stated towards those who want to be represented, and are denied. Paul supporters are expected to just trust that a list of delegates (of which we had no idea who the list was, or what they would vote for) would represent us? This is a serious election. Our nation is on the brink. We understand everyone loves their community and the not-so-united states. We all want to do what we can to help things be better. Many of those people at the Clay County Caucus today were denied that opportunity.

    • ClayCoMOPolitics says:

      No, they just behaved like five-year-olds, it was not mature behavior. No support for tyrannical regimes here.

      Since it’s propaganda (it’s not a proper noun, so you don’t have to capitalize it), would you mind telling me what technique I employed. I’m curious?

      You might want to work on your comprehension skills, too. Nowhere in the post did I state that I do not know why we had a caucus.

      Yes, it is a serious election. Paul supporters are so consumed with their messiah that they forget that the real power in our system lies in the House and Senate. Ron Paul won’t sweep in and save the world just as Barack Obama didn’t swoop in and change things for the better.

  5. […] Political Meanderings in Clay County states that, “By allowing these individuals to continue to be present and ignoring their persistent calls to be recognized through Robert’s Rules of Order he made the situation a little more chaotic than it needed to be. He should have either accepted their point of order and listened to whatever they had to say.” […]

  6. E. Dunn says:

    Anyone who refers to Dr. Paul as the “messiah” of his supporters has absolutely no understanding of the liberty movement. None. Period. Ron Paul’s supporters support him enthusiastically because of his adherence to the principles of liberty. It has little to nothing to do with the man, Ron Paul. Even Ron Paul understands this and knows that if he were to sway from the principles upon which he has stood for so long, we, his supporters, would drop him like a rock. That doesn’t exactly make him a messiah, does it? It makes him a man of principle who is worthy of our support and respect because he has proven that he can be trusted to actually fulfill his oath to uphold the U.S. Constitution while all the other candidates have proven the opposite.

  7. “My major qualms with him surround his foreign policy. He’s just wrong, so wrong I can’t support him for the nomination of the Republican party.”

    Would you mind expanding on this a little bit? Perhaps you’ve covered this topic in a previous post?


  8. Ashalind says:

    In all fairness, I don’t think the Ron Paul supporters expected people to vote for a platform they had never read. They would have loved to read it at the caucus, and someone in the room did request the proposed new platform actually be read (and I don’t even think he was a Ron Paul supporter), but the chairman wasn’t interested in taking the time to do that. Overall, I thought some could have toned it down, but the majority of Ron Paul supporters were perfectly cordial and professional. The ruckus began when the chairman simply refused to recognize people who were asking to be heard, and that can justifiably frustrate people. The whole proceedings were sloppy, most notably from the very beginning when it started 30 minutes late, and when it appeared they didn’t even know how to properly count the vote in a fair way. And fairness was all that was being asked for, albeit in a very vocal way. I came away with the impression that the infusion of passionate youth Ron Paul brings to the Republican party was unwelcome, and they alienate these people at their own peril.

    • ClayCoMOPolitics says:

      Yes, that would have been great then we could have been there for five hours instead of four. It probably would have been voted down anyway.

      • Rob McElroy says:

        Why have a caucus at all if we should just vote for a slate and we don’t know who they will vote for? Lets just keep punching the voting booth for the same old folks and continue to expect something different. Good idea!

        Ron Paul’s foreign policy is in line w/ the constitution as others have noted in the replies.

        You stated, “But when you get right down to it, as of right now I think there is no best candidate, but I certainly believe that Ron Paul is not the guy, so in a very convoluted way my voice was sort-of heard”.

        Really your voice was heard? I am baffled by that response – some of those delegates supposedly will vote for Dr. Paul (that is what the establishment claimed). Was your ‘voice’ still heard then?

        How can you not be decided by now? That is strange – you appear to be very politically aware. The problem is romney, santorum and gingrich represent the same failed policies.

        If you really can’t make up your mind after the plethora of debates which have occurred and the record each of the politicians already have then you are simply confused.

        You can vote for obama, romney, gingrich or santorum. you will get hope and change, team players and the end game will be the same – the growth of government. i’m sure you will be ‘safer’ though :-).

      • ClayCoMOPolitics says:

        We shouldn’t have a caucus at all.

        It’s simple, I don’t look to any of these guys to solve our problems. We need to quit looking to the President to solve our political problems and remember how this republic actually works. The power lies in the House and Senate. It doesn’t matter who is President in 2012, we have to have the legislature under control and able to keep him in check.

      • Must we remind you, the caucus started 30 minutes late, and THAT should never had happened. The doors were supposed to be closed and locked at 10am.. And had the voice of the taxpayers been heard it would not have lasted half as long as it did. Not to mention that they were breaking their own rules and were forced to play fair. I am pretty sure you didn’t know the rules either, or you just chose to ignore them..

      • ClayCoMOPolitics says:

        Mindy, thanks for bringing up the late start. I apologize for leaving that out of my original post. That is a completely fair criticism. You misunderstand the point of caucuses though. It has nothing to do with “hearing the voice of taxpayers.” A caucus is about hearing the voice of members of a political party.

  9. Bev Ehlen says:

    The problem isn’t with the caucus system. That system was set up for participation and involvement, not a quick opinion vote on Primary Day especially in a state that doesn’t have a closed primary.

  10. Christopher Till says:

    I just wanted to point out something. The county caucuses are non-binding. That is why they had it the way they had it. If we would’ve approved Mr. Findlay’s slate of delegates, they would’ve been bound to one candidate. And…anyone could be a delegate, they could’ve put their names in to be a delegate or an alternate. Just thought I’d clarify that.

  11. Tim says:

    Wow! A whole county of missourians was disenfrachised and you want to cry foul on the only group of people trying to call it into question. I was impressed that the Ron Paul people at least were prepared enough to use Robert’s Rules to question the mysterious “Unity Slate” which never was even defined. And by the way, many groups were fired up; including the Romulans

  12. They were screaming because the CHAIRMAN was not following the OFFICIAL RULES, they were changing them to make it work for them. Here’s the issue that ROMNEY/SANTORUM/GINGRICH supporters didn’t understand.

    They did not even get to support their candidate of choice! (and I must remind you, this has NOTHING TO DO with RON PAUL) The opponents side should be asking themselves “What WAS on the slate we all voted for?” No ONE saw it, you guys have NO IDEA..

    And my point here is, ROMNEY/SANTORUM/GINGRICH supporters all GOT PUNKED by the GOP! I also must point out, at least the Ron Paul supporters all KNEW what was on their slate, you guys DIDN’T.. Technically, there should have been 4 DIFFERENT SLATES, but in reality, there were 2. All designed just to oppose the Ron Paul slate.

    You guys got DUPED and like sheeple you followed… The joke is on you guys, not us.

    And I must also add, when the chips fall, and they will at the 2012 election, you guys all will see what really happened and you won’t have recourse. You guys were completely UN-prepared, and just followed orders like you were told to do. I am a free minded individual who makes my own decisions, and I can live with them, can you?

    • ClayCoMOPolitics says:

      No, I won’t be bitter because none of these candidates impress me. Oh, wait, NONE OF THESE CANDIDATES IMPRESS ME! (Man, it does feel better to use all caps.) So, at the end of the day I’m really not too upset at what happened at the caucus. I’m more upset that we have a governor that caused this mess because he vetoed a bill that was passed by the legislature. Can you write him one of your cap locks filled diatribes? We should have never have had to endure the stupid thing in the first place. I’m also not really concerned because at the end of the day, I’m really not a Republican. The Republican party, or as what so many term the “establishment” is a laughable joke, as was greatly demonstrated on Saturday.

      But I don’t know, I may be scared of my own decisions (dripping sarcasm).

    • Beau Gabriel says:

      I completely agree with Mindy. It appeared that once Chairman Ben Wierzbicki realized that the Ron Paul numbers amounted to 1/3 of the attendance, there was no way that either of the other 3 candidates could have won by a 2/3 majority – which IS required to win a vote, by Robert’s Rules of Order. The Unity Slate was a GOP strategy that went into effect once the numbers for John Findley were in. It was obvious, because the Chairman tried to segregate everyone at the beginning BEFORE even calling the meeting to order. That is actually against GOP rules. The reason why the Ron Paul supporters wanted John Findley to facilitate the caucus, was so that there would not be an issue with the order of events OR with the rules being followed.

  13. […] “Paultards,” or “Ronulans” become disruptive at events. See this post from claycomopolitics, for example, or this report, […]

  14. Mark Anthony Jones says:

    “The reality is this must be fixed by our legislators before the next Presidential election. Caucuses are absurd and have no place in our modern political landscape.”

    A large part of what is wrong with America is the fact that our education system is so broken that we hear and see in print this kind of mis-education. Our country was founded as a constitutional republic, yet you speak of it as a democracy (mob rule). NOWHERE do you find in the constitution the word democracy. Our public schools have taught, and even our Republican presidents (George W. Bush for example) have portrayed it as a democracy, and I think on purpose. Throughout history, democracies descend into chaos and as we can all see, we are there. Mob rule is not the answer; representative government is and Dr. Paul, whether you like it or not, is operating firmly in the world of a Republic and a republican frame of reference.

    Too bad OUR party has strayed so far from its roots and too bad BOTH parties have descended into Marxism and Marxism-lite. Dr. Paul is the ONLY voice in this race who has a record of voting for a return to our first principles of the Bill of Rights. Others pay lip service while they vote for “No Child Left Behind” (federal oversight of education) or push Romneycare (government oversight of healthcare) or “advise” Fannie and Freddie, but Dr. Paul is the real deal.


    • ClayCoMOPolitics says:

      Boy, that’s a creative twisting of political science concepts. Let’s just assume for a second that Clay County is a county that matches the national affiliation trends. So we live in a county of 221,939 people. Of those people 74.2% are of voting age so that leaves us with 164,678. Nationally 36% of people identify themselves as Republican. I’m going to be generous here, I imagine Clay County is above the national average so I’ll give you 10%, so let’s say Clay County is 46% Republican. So that means about 74,000 adults in Clay County might identify as Republicans. On Saturday 600 “Republicans” showed up to caucus. That’s .81% of Clay County Republicans. I can’t remember exactly but it seemed there was about 200 Paul supporters. That is .27% of Clay County Republicans. We can look at this another way 33% of the caucus attendees were Ron Paul supporters, accept nationally supporters of Ron Paul make up only 10% of the Republican party. Hmmm…. it seems we have a situation that is not representative at all. I can dig into this more, but I really don’t have the time and have wasted my morning on this.

      May I also remind you even in our “constitutional republic” a “representative district” is determined by the majority. Totally agreed, our founding fathers were trying to temper democracy and mob rule through the republic that was created. What happened on Saturday was just a mess. Had it been more organized I don’t even think the Ron Paul supporters would have a leg to stand on.

      You might also want to remind yourself what some of our founding fathers thought about political parties.

      It is interesting you bring up public education in this context. American history and civics is actually the area that we are failing in public education the most.

      Let me help you here with a couple things. First, I agree with much of what Ron Paul says. As I stated in my original post I stated that I have both financially supported candidate Paul and Paul’s PAC. (What is with you guys and reading comprehension?) I used to be a member of the Libertarian Party, so you and I probably agree more than we disagree. I left the Libertarian Party for reasons that actually reflect the emotional silliness that I saw on Saturday. I honestly have to say after Saturday that I am even more convinced that the Republican party is as broken as the Democrat party.

      Your using the wrong term to describe the parties. I would contend it is more socialism and socialism-lite. I would agree that Ron Paul is probably the most reasoned voice with regards to the constitution in this race. It is just a shame his foreign policy turns me and so many others off so much.

  15. Mr. Greg Montgomery says:

    As you stated in the opening paragraphs, this same sort of thing happened all across the state. The question is why? There is a huge split in the republican party nation wide. It’s too bad because it means the Dems will win yet again. It has become obvious that the party that claims to stand up for individual rights and fiscal responsibility has been co-opted by big business interests that simply want to use government and tax payer money to increase profits. So the upshot is tons of people are pissed off and seeing a candidate that represents their views are attempting to get involved. They come up against stiff opposition from the tow the line regulars who’s only rallying cry is beat the dems. It makes sense that the regulars would want the statu quo because they are doing just fine. You may have been at the caucus four years ago as well? I expect you noticed that the true conservatives are growing in number and were able to have a much more disruptive effect then last time. I would expect them to continue to build momentum over the next four years as well. Changing from a caucus system to a primary system should take care of the “problem” since “Citizen United” allowed PACs will be able to buy the TV ads needed to cloud the issues and keep the corporate shills in power. If corporation are allowed to be citizens and they can not die I fear no elections will be needed. I doubt anyone will read all the way through but the gist is … if you treated your neighbors the way the US does, you wouldn’t get very far in life. We are creating enemies faster than we can kill them.

  16. Remember the “Roulans” in 2008 asking people to PLEASE not vote for Obama because we told them what would happen? Ron Paul KNEW this was going to happen, we we’re informed. Once again, we are informed of WHAT will happen AGAIN, that Romney, and Santorum are cut from the SAME CLOTH as what we currently have. Our only request to all here who do not know, or understand Ron Paul and HIS agenda, please inform yourself. Also do a little research on what the ones you are supporting now voted on in the past. Americans have a problem, memory loss. The politicians depend on your forgetting, and like sheep you file in line heading to the slaughter house. All the Ron Paul supports are asking is that you do a little research (we have) and WE KNOW. Just trying to vote a candidate out isn’t good enough if you haven’t done your homework. Get out from in front of the television, and do a little homework. Start with Judge Andrew Napolitano’s “What if speeches” (you can find them here: http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Napolitano+what+if&oq=Napolitano+what+if&aq=f&aqi=g4&aql=&gs_sm=12&gs_upl=38796426l38800712l0l38803031l18l18l0l9l9l0l208l1034l4.4.1l9l0 He is brilliant, and what he is saying in these speeches is EXACTLY what is currently happening. Just take some time.

  17. ronin1972 says:

    I agree with Mindy as well, it seems like the Establishment republicans use their dislike of Dr. Paul to stack the deck against him in this caucus.

    Their should have been 4 clearly described groups one for each candidate, but since the other three candidates are pretty identical to each other(and Obama), the establishment Republicans combined them in what appears to be one party to represent whatever platform they the establishment desired, the only thing that was clear was they that they were not in support of Dr. Paul and the fact that the author of this blog can not or will not realize this shows his bias and his willingness to accept being ruled by the establishment.

    The reason I say this is even if you don’t agree with Dr. Paul’s foreign policy or want him to be the next nominee, you would still desire clear and open elections of all the delegates, if Dr. Paul’s supporters are the ones that win because they attended and believed in their canidate, then whether you feel they are the most inline with the populous of the county you are in is irrelevant, we are supposed to be in a representative Republic, so if you don’t show you don’t get a voice.

    You need to be point the finger and the blame at the other candidates and their lack of supporters, not the fact that Dr. Paul can actually bring people into the party and the process.

  18. This just goes to prove that there IS biased, and corrupt happenings all over Missouri and everywhere else. This woman stood up for what she felt was the right thing to do. More Americans should follow suit if they are aware of the corrupt happenings against Dr. Paul. http://www.ronpaulforums.com/showthread.php?368573-Source-Phone-Message-Revealed-in-St.-Charles-County-Republican-Central-Committee-Scandal

  19. Alicia Bedgood says:

    I really wish I would’ve been able to go. It sounds very similar to 2008. If you are a Ron Paul supporter and speak loud and proud then you are shouting and obnoxious. If you support someone else then you are what? Normal? Rational? Again, I truly think if you love your family, yourself, your country, you will vote for Ron Paul. You will talk to people about him. We are all very passionate about this. When we talk about our country, our families, our soliers, etc., can you not see the joy and the passion that we all have? The love that we all have? It hurts us to see that people aren’t waking up and they are allowing our wonderful country slip away. We are being micro-managed now. We are under so many laws and restrictions. We have such wonderful things like “Obamacare” now. What they heck were people thinking when they nominated Obama? This is our chance, our time to take our country back! I am to the point now, I can’t help but cry when I see people struggle. I see other kids that go to school with mine and they are very thin, they parents aren’t working and can’t afford food. So many unemployed. Prices of things are going up as the value of our dollar drops. Soldiers aren’t home yet. Insurance costs going up. Really, everything is crazy now. I just beg for people to open their eyes. You can’t hold it against Ron Paul supporters for being passionate and being scared for the country they love and being scared for not only their future but yours too!

  20. Alicia, very well said! We are passionate, very true. I also wish that people who are still asleep; would wake up. It makes me sad too.

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